threadwalker | Unfiltered

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Unfiltered like usual because, IMO, once you post it here it might as well be unfiltered. The only stuff I filter is work-related just in case one of my erstwhile colleagues is skimming LJ for key words.

Cut for your protection. Unfiltered opinions.

Work is not fun, which is why we call it work. There's a lot of BS at work and I bring my game face most days. I don't mistake work as a place where we brush each other's hair and plan potlucks, so I try to be prepared for the politics and the egos.

Why do I have so much trouble with that in the rest of my life? Because I don't expect to have to have a game face when I'm with friends and doing my "fun" stuff.

I think the current state of the "arts" in the West Kingdom is super-callous-fragile-suspiscoius-expel-us-out-eedoshus. It pisses me off when I think about it.

1. Cancelling a Kingdom Collegium? I cry. Autocratting Collegium is a job that requires project management skills and the ability to draw people in. I've done it so I can speak to that. But I'm not finger pointing at the autocrats, I'm pointing my finger at the arts community. Its your event; step up and own it. I spent years helping or autocratting these events and they reflect the community they serve. However, I'm not surprised that the event has withered; this is what happens when the community doesn't come together. Everyone is empowered to make this event better, you need to open your eyes, have some passion and step up. Here's an example: Mari and her crew offered to organize a library at one of the one's I held. They came to me, had the idea, the tools, the books, the copier and even organized it as a fund raiser; the coins they collected for using the copier/scanner were donated to underwrite the event. All I had to do was say "wow, that's cool. Here's a room you can have all day."

How important is Collegium to the community and what are YOU going to do to make it better?

2. I heard rumors the K/Q were thinking of lowering the bar on the Golden Poppy. I was pretty pissed off about that as well; HRJ was a patient ear for my fury. What's the point of having something challenging to do if you're going to dumb it down so that it's no longer a challeng?. I couldn't think of a good analogy to help the fighter-centric culture wrap their eric-party-warped brains around at first. However, the opportunity for "new" Kings has withered away, so lowering the bar for becoming a Duke by winning a single Crown or even a Coronet isn't all that different than lowering the bar for earning the Golden Poppy. So why don't we just dumb everything down and make it accessible to everyone. Then, when we're all special, no one is special. I'm so freaking pissed off about this that I've been toying with sponsoring my own arts event/activity. Like Lodema used to. grrrr.... We'll see... June Crown is a good time for sunshine and arts.

So what am I going to do?

I unsubscribed from SCA West shortly after Eilis and whats-his-name stepped up. Its a source of angst and I don't want angst in my life.

I serve the Kingdom, not these people who are sitting on the throne. I spent a lot of time thinking about that and what it means to be a peer. I'm not quitting; I am a peer regardless of my fealty to the K/Q. However, I cannot support them personally and cannot bring myself to respect them, so I no longer consider myself in fealty to them, just to the Kingdom. This was a hard process for me because I've been in fealty to a lot of jerks who've sat on those thrones without being pushed to this point. They have done too many wrongs.

I have been refocusing on MY arts. I'm pulling together an outline for a class and a work shop on late Italian Ren clothing and clothing embellishment. I'm doing research and testing my theories with finished projects right now. I offered something similar to the West a few years ago, but they were uninterested, so I'll float a class proposal to IKINs next year in order to teach in at IKINs the following year in Caid (2011).

I'm sorting out my encampment stuff to make it easier for me to camp with the kids next year based on the assumption that F will continue to work weekends at the least opportune time. Flying light, but effective.

Instead of relying on the Royals to leave their clumsy mits off the areas of West Kingdom Arts that I like, I'm just going to do my own thing regardless which is to promote arts, to teach and to learn.

I'm percolating on working through the guilds (as long as they, too, haven't been disbanded).

I've been thinking about organizing a small collegium, though I'm not sure if it would be an SCA event or a private "arts day" of classes. I'm very jaded with the SCA politics so the potential hurdles of having to deal with sucking up to someone's ego to get permission to organize something I've done successfully before would just piss me off. I'd either need the green-light for my blue print from someone who trusts me or it would have to be private.

I am working on my "class in a bag", which is a concept I floated to my apprentices. Basically I'm putting together a class outline and kits/hand-outs that I can take to events and teach on a moment's notice.

I have some other ideas percolating, but I need to see how my class shapes up and how camping works out this year.

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I love your small collegium idea! I can't really teach anything, but I'm a great audience and can be support-o-girl. :->

Sing it, sister.

I would teach and attend classes.

Hey, quibble here: Can we get a better phrase than FighterCentric? I ask here because you, a fighter, might have a better idea. It's not the fighting culture that is drowning out the Art Culture, it's the VictoryatTournament that's overtaking them both--or so my theory is. Thugculture? No culture? I'm not sure.

In regards to a small collegium, it's a great event for a local group to host, or if that's too difficult, a household. I've done subevents both separately and in conjunction with other events as well, as you have done. The 14 cen. cook's playdate was a fun subevent at Coronet, as have all of Genvieve's salons. Given your level of work business, I'd recommend getting a co-autocrat, or handing this off to your students.

Excellent quibble. At first my response was going to be whole-hearted agreement. However, as I started typing I recalled comments made in the past by fighters I respect regarding who should be entitled to shade on the eric and regarding the role of arts in the Kingdom. It's not the Victory Centric attitude on the field (in this case) that's the problem, it's the insulation of the fighters from art; the lack of empathy from those striving on the field for those striving in craft rooms. I'm not sure there are many fighters who are strictly through and through fighters (who don't do arts) that would really get why dumbing down the Golden Poppy is an issue that triggers rage in me. And maybe that's part of the problem, too. Back when I met you, you and Andrew and Raul and Oelf and Douglas, et al, were still squires and you openly talked about the importance of being able to dance and that doing arts was part of the prerequisites to being a knight. I think that's been lost; knights are no longer expected to be well-rounded gentlemen, they are combatants.

Collegiums, etc, heh... I have no intentions of doing any event alone. Many hands make work light.

Good point on the "victory-centric". I do feel wanting to play at a "high-level" and then [almost always not intentionally in my experience] excluding others is a problem our group currently faces. And not just on the fighting front. There's been a thing or 2 over the years I've chosen to avoid. That being said it can be very challenging to design something that is accessible to both the new and the veteran. Not every event can accomodate everyone and everything.

Totally agree if the "lowering the bar" on the poppy rumor is true. Better to just not give an award than to make it easier to get.

"Back when I met you, you and Andrew and Raul and Oelf and Douglas, et al, were still squires and you openly talked about the importance of being able to dance and that doing arts was part of the prerequisites to being a knight. I think that's been lost; knights are no longer expected to be well-rounded gentlemen, they are combatants."

Ironically much of what I learned on that front was at collegiums and A&S when there was often a fighting track. One the one hand I'd love to see that again. One the other hand I dread all the commentary about "the fighters" trying to co-opt another event. Just writing that here makes me wince in anticipation. ;)

It's so weird to me that if encouraging fighters to come to collegia means giving them space and time to fight AT the collegia, then how is it logical for people to complain that the fighters are trying to co-opt an arts event? It's like saying "sure, we want more people to attend and so we create an atmosphere where the most people are going to be drawn to the event and then we get upset that the people coming to the event are going to the classes that interest them."

I'm personally in favor of having fighting at collegium events, because I am a pragmatist and a realist, and I know that there's a portion of the SCA who won't go to an event unless it means they get to put on armor. And that's totally fine by me (I won't go to an event unless I get to wear pretty clothes. Hey, whatever floats yer boat). Plus, some of my best friends are fighters and I like seeing friends at events. I don't feel like having a martial arts section at collegium undermines the integrity of collegium, which is what I think I'm hearing often from the non-fighting "arts community". I wouldn't go to to collegium if they weren't offering classes and activities relevant to my interests, and I dare say that's probably how most people feel. Having a fighting track is like PE class in school... I'm probably not going to go to it, but the people who are into that physical stuff and want to train/learn/hone skills should have a place to do it at an event where the whole purpose is to train/learn/hone skills in ALL areas relevant to the SCA.

So maybe what it means is rethinking what collegium is vs. what it should be in order to survive. I see that some people in the arts community feel like collegium is the only place where they get to really let their geek flag fly without having to give precedence to the fighter community, but I disagree with that point of view. I say reverse-discrimination doesn't help the situation. As a self proclaimed member of the arts community, I see absolutely no problem with embracing the fighter community within collegium. And seriously, if you want a strictly arts event, then be prepared for lower attendance and downsize the scale of the event accordingly.

Edited 2009-11-15 19:12 (UTC)

I think it was a mistake to discontinue the fighting tracks at collegium. The roundtables on being a squire, on knightly virtues and even the warm-up slow work classes always had great turn out, often included non-fighters, and were a great way of helping fighters grow from combatant towards a higher more... err... spritiual? chivalric? connected? .. martial artist. (searching for the words).. heh... it put the "artist" in "martial artist"...lol.. cracking myself up. But you know what I mean.

Sure do. It would provide a consistant forum as well. Got something you want to kick around with other? Set up class! Want to learn 2 stick? Ask someone to tech. War vs. Tourney behaviour? Ditto. Seems so simple...

I find the replies so far to be quite heartning thanks for kicking this off.

For outlying areas, this may be one of the few places where people who want to learn to be a fighter can start. I know that was the case in the past. How cool for them to have an entire day and get most of the way to the training they need to getting their fighting authorizations!

For those of us who are currently central, we have so many skilled knights we run into them in the supermarkets and around town when not doing SCA activities. For outlying areas, they have to make arrangements for a knight to travel all the way to where they are to visit them and get some training.

I think not having fighting classes at Collegium is unfair to that portion of the population!

It also provides an opportunity for the shy or those who haven't yet figured out where and how to train to meet fighters and gain that knowledge.

The one, little Collegium I ran had about 50% of the attendance there to learn fighting. They all seemed really enthusiastic and pleased with what they had learned. I remember that that was team taught by several Knights, and run/organized by John T. (Of course, that was forever ago, and the people and culture in the SCA have changed. However, I don't think they have changed that much.)

Still, one of the most common things I hear about Collegium and A&S is, "What is that? I've never heard of it. What does it mean, or what do you do at an event like that?"

(I'll stop commenting now, as otherwise I won't be able to stop!)

Late to the party... Chivalric history/virtue classes *have* been happening at almost every Collegium for the last 5 years. I know, because I've been teaching them. And they almost always get a good turnout (eight or more people.)

This makes me wonder if maybe the people who are complaining that "fighter-centric" classes aren't offered haven't even been looking at the schedule? Or maybe they think that only classes on the physical aspects of fighting count?

"et al, were still squires and you openly talked about the importance of being able to dance and that doing arts was part of the prerequisites to being a knight. I think that's been lost; knights are no longer expected to be well-rounded gentlemen, they are combatants."

I tend to think that each of the bestowed peerages contains individuals that are not sterling examples of their order. When I am taking the measure of an order, one of the things I look to is the qualities of the newest candidates. I recognize that it is the Crown, not the Order that makes the offer, but looking at the freshest blood gives a snapshot of *This* at this instant is what we deem worthy of our order. With that as a background, I'm surprised to you alluding to the idea that Knights are lacking in Arts or Courtly Graces.

When I look at the last 5 offers which span 2.5 years, I know one individual in passing, two individuals reasonably, one individual well, and one individual intimately :). Judging the 4 I know at least reasonably, I find that each has at least a passing background in Arts, Service, and Courtly Graces.

Could you provide more specifics on exactly what lack you see? I suspect we differ either in how well we know the candidates or in expectation levels and I would love to see where that difference lies.

I know for my boy, he is most likely to travel to something that includes fighting. Most of his arts happen either at home or at local meetings/events. I wonder if some of the disconnect is related to distance and travel.

"Back when I met you, you and Andrew and Raul and Oelf and Douglas, et al, were still squires and you openly talked about the importance of being able to dance and that doing arts was part of the prerequisites to being a knight. I think that's been lost; knights are no longer expected to be well-rounded gentlemen, they are combatants."

Not sure if you are asking this toward me or Threadalker. On my end I am using this to point out [I'm the Andrew mentioned] that where I learned much about what I do and how [when I was more active anyways ;)] was at events where fighting tracks no longer happen. Which I find ironic. I'm not refering to elevations at all.

"I find that each has at least a passing background in Arts, Service, and Courtly Graces."

No arguement on that point. You other post about sub-groups really hits the nail on the head. I think problems occur when people looking inward at their sub-group lose awareness of other groups around them and then end up stepping on toes. That can happen with any segment of our group.

Just hearing people talk about an "arts community" and a "figthing community" like there's a border between the 2 is a little nuts making. One of the things I've always liked about the SCA is the ability for people to bounce around and follow different interests. I mean how many folks out there have more than one peerage?

And I think you hit the nail on the head there with what I was trying to verbalize and managed to kind of miss...

There are artists in the art community who fight. There are fighters in the fighting community who are artists. There is no dividing line between both pools... Some people are strictly interested in fighting, some are strictly interested in arting, but there is a significant overlap of both groups. Significant enough to make the whole issue of keeping fighting and arts separate really, really stupid.

It's that "us vs. them" mentality that has been driving me quietly insane for a while now (and it is a mentality, I'm sorry to say, that I've seen and heard coming more from the arts community than from anywhere else). And the whole thing about making arts "sexy" just rankles me... Art IS sexy if you're doing it right. If you're enthusiastic and open and approachable and willing to share it with others, there's no stopping you. I look at the people who enjoy fighting and am in awe of their enthusiasm and passion that they have for their art, and it inspires me. I hope people see me geeked out over my own little projects and get turned on too. Inspiration is sexy, and if we don't inspire then we're not ever going to flourish.

/rant

Edited 2009-11-15 19:35 (UTC)

Thanks for both comments. I though I liked you when we met. ;) The replies here have been quite a nice discussion I think.

Aw, you're welcome! I'm flattered you remembered me! Now, we must be Livejournal friends! ;)

Mostly I was asking threadwalker, but I'm willing to talk to anyone who is willing to talk back.

On the rest, I agree with you, it's all about gateway drugs...and avoiding us vs them whenever possible.

BTW, I don't believe we've met - Hi, Andrew (Sir Andrew I presume), I'm Else.

Yep that's me! Lovely to meet and "kick the idea can" about with you.

I really like that you have identified that this is an "arts community" issue in that the solution needs to come from the arts community. Along those lines if you do a small collegium or specialty event, I would really encourage you to have it open to the SCA as a whole. Run it through a local group or something.

Increasingly I see folks drawing inward. While I think that lets you create a really strong sub-group, I fail to see how that strengthens a greater community.

Increasingly I see folks drawing inward. While I think that lets you create a really strong sub-group, I fail to see how that strengthens a greater community.

I agree with this 100%.

That depends on what you consider the "greater community"... You could say the SCA is comprised of many sub groups that make up the greater community. Healthy and active sub groups are a vital part of the SCA (IMO).

I give to the "Greater Community" on a pretty regular basis and yet feel pretty disenfranchised and unappreciated. Should I be giving more? Should my friends pretend that everything is awesome? I am uncomfortable with a suspension of the thought and reasoning process that reduces fealty to fealty = if someone wants to poop on the Kingdom I should bring that individual a fiber bar.

Hah! I love the phrasing.
I agree the sub-groups are vital. To my thinking the trick is to not get so focused on your own sub-group that you stop paying attention to where you poop.

This is where you can tell I've spent too many years around the edges of academia. Sub-groups and study groups are great. Basic research is vital...where it becomes a waste in an public policy/academia sense is when the knowledge is not extended back to the general population. Contemplating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin is poor use of funding dollars.

Now to apply that to the greater SCA - we are by and large a social organization. Groups getting together to study narrow interest areas is fine even desirable. Hopefully, that sub-group then takes that knowledge and extends it back to the populace at large, in the form of classes, entertainment, service, material goods, and/or general ambiance.

I've seen the aftermath of drawing inward when you feel maligned. Remember I started in the SCA as a fencer before I moved to the West. I came here about 3 years after the ban was lifted. In rapier, this response to marginalization was viewed as "using" the greater community for insurance and infrastructure.

Further marginalization as a sub-group when you feel aggrieved can create weird disconnects from the larger culture. Focus is fine. Exclusion and being seen as a drain on resources is bad.

I think the arts might be a further example. Narrowing the focus of Collegia was in part a response to the idea that "the arts community" was getting lost in the noise at larger events. Unfortunately as the focus tightened, the larger culture responded by decreasing attendance. This decreased attendance became a habit. Now we are looking to reinvigorating the wheel.

Ultimately in the game, the only lasting power we have is to play or not the way we think we should. We have no control over the actions of others. As with everything free will and choice are not checked at the gate.

I believe your particular case is unique. I understand why you feel under appreciated. I do however see your case as being separate from the Collegium issue or the Golden Poppy issue or the pan-global-arts issue, which were what I was addressing as that was what the original post was addressing as I read it.

I think for you they may be separate, but for many of my friends and family... it is growing increasingly difficult to feel motivated to give and participate "officially" where it is clear the people in power are clumsily bungling what you care about... or simply don't understand or care. Was it supportive of the Golden Poppy competition to banish a viable participant? You may see that as inconsequential, but not everyone does. Was it supportive of the arts to banish someone who is holding regular A&S classes and activities? I hate to sound pouty (LOL) and obviously I am still doing my thing... but if my activities go offline (the fighter practice will remain a household one; it will not revert back to "official" when my banishment is over) it is because this Crown has clearly shown distain for my contributions. The Crown, directly thru their behavior towards me (and the Golden Poppy and Collegium managment), has turned some people off of to participating in an "official" capacity by seemingly showing a pattern of disinfranchising people who care and are capable of doing the dirty work.

I don't feel I am personally a drain on resources without giving back in many ways when I can. I also think the Rapier community (at least since I've been playing) is willing to make contributions and be helpful as well.

I yield.

I think that not every model fits into anyone's theory. There are always examples and exceptions to every situation. It would be impossible to find the one-true model that fits the SCA-situation because models seem to be based on assuming reasonable behaviour. I think we all tend to think of ourselves as reasonable, but all of us live in rooms of one-way mirrors and not everyone looking in at us will see what we see. Plus, we have no idea how people are reacting until they start to react openly. I'm only saying that because my definition of "reasonable behavior" and your definition might be similar, but we don't always see others exhibiting the same. So when I hear that someone's changing the Golden Poppy, that seems very unreasonable to me, and yet it may/will happen and I have to throw aside social models and figure out what I'm going to do in my room of one-way mirrors. (Or is that my padded cell?)

I'd like to thank you for your posts because thinking about what we say after someone else reacts is just as important as having our say in the first place.

LOL no yielding necessary! Healthy debate amongst friends is never a bad thing... I totally understand your perspective is different from mine and thank god... if everyone was feeling as disenfranchised as I do... it would not be a good thing. I am truly hoping it's just a passing phase for me.

No worries. I am a huge fan of healthy debate, but I don't want to leave you feeling hurt. We'll work it out some other time over sausage and wine when folks feel less raw.

You are far to made of awesome to leave me feeling hurt, but I appreciate the sentiment :)

I think that we need to embrace diversity. It's okay to have a "sub-group" who's interested in something and if there's a way for them to share it with the community as a whole, that's great. But if the community as a whole (e.g. the Powers that Determine who gets on court schedule, who gets eric space or who can set up a display table at 12th night) is not interested in partaking or in "hosting" a sub-group (which I like to think of as "subject-focused"), then it's also acceptable to pursue it in a manner that you can. If it means holding an afternoon of music classes in your personal pavilion, in your back-yard or at the local community center, then it's no ill reflection on the subject-focused people who can't get air-time anywhere else.

Personally, "withdrawing" is not an option to me. I may fall back, regroup, and experiment with effective formats, but I'm commited to plunging back in. The development of the useful format may require some behind the scenes testing, or seeking events outside the WK if I can't find the venue here (e.g. the costuming class I couldn't pimp to save my life a few years ago), but I'm not really wired to withdraw from anything.

Well, when you want a place to host a class, let me know. I know of a cute little shire that has money in the bank and folks interested in Italians.

deal

I'm currently tired (in many ways and for a couple of reasons). Kinda falling back and regrouping myself. Still working on projects promised (even to those from whom I am - though I still love them - falling back) and still socializing with friends with whom I would socialize if I were at events. Just not doing much *officially*.

It's all good. I'll be back in force someday.

Especially if you teach an Italian class! Then I can finish the Italian you helped me start back when Eliska and Fabian reigned. (It's still in pieces. Oh geez. That's embarrassing to admit!)

I'm pulling together an outline for a class and a work shop on late Italian Ren clothing and clothing embellishment. I'm doing research and testing my theories with finished projects right now. I offered something similar to the West a few years ago, but they were uninterested

WHAT???!

*choke*splutter*cough*

Based on the enthusiastic responses I hear whenever anyone offers to teach anything on 16th c. clothing (especially Italian) that's crazy that you were turned down for offering a class on that topic. I know at least five people off the top of my head who would sign up for it, and probably twice that would easily attend.

Craziness!

no ill will on the autocrats. They had something specific in mind and my class didn't fit into their vision.

I like to think that it gave me more time to work in the Corbie Cave to refine my wild schemes. :-D

I agree with a bunch of the comments listed here. The other thing that IMO was killing A&S's and Collegium is the not publishing/advertising the classes Months in advance. This last Collegium, there were 2 classes I was interested in, both got cancelled at the last minute, and luckily I found something else to attend (one class). But not knowing till a couple of weeks before the event What was being taught and when (so you could schedule your day) is very frustrating, and IMO unprofessional.
One of the things I miss about the ones that you (and your students/household) ran.
I love the idea of a small collegium.

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