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I'm in a communcation class all day today at work. Yes, we all need more tools for communication AND taking a class is one of my annual goals. I'm meeting work's measurable criteria AND I have a day away from my desk. Go me!
Anyway, the instructor said something that struck me really hard and I'm sharing. Let me preface this by saying, "This is my journal wherein I share my opinions. Polite, even vigorous, disagreement is welcome. Disrespect is not."
ooooo... curious? lol
"Knowledge is nice, but if you don't apply it, it loses credibility."
(right about here I toss out ALL the communication skills we're practicing in my class... go me!)
Another way of saying that is,
You can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?
I actually like the new quote better from the teacher because it's not about what you say you can do, it's about the knowledge you claim to have internalized and whether or not I give you credibility. This concept has been in my head for a while now and I'm excited that someone put it in words for me. I've been pondering this since A&S when an artisan told me how much research they've done on something, but then how they are not applying it because it (costs too much/ is too hard/ would take too long/ no one would understand/ insert excuse of your choice... etc).
But there are so many places where I see this:
Tell me you know and understand (blank), but do you live it?
-honor
-safety
-love
-honesty
This could be a very long list.
Phooey! If you don't do it, then I don't care how well you know it, you've lost credibility with me.
Don't say, "I am honorable and I know what it means to be honorable," and then cheat on your S.O., rhino in a tournament, cheat your taxes, or lie to your friends about where you went last weekend. That's bull shit.
Don't say, "I love you," and then break that trust or give it to another or upgrade it to Love Version 3.5 and edit your lover out of it. Bull shit.
Don't say, "I am honest," and then lie, either by ommision or outright. BS.
To bring this back around to SCA arts, which initiated my ponderings this summer, I am really tired of excuses. They are bullshit, too. Do it or don't do it, but don't try to dazzle me with your knowledge and then pass off your 11th hour effort as something that could have been better if you had better resources or had the time to "really, really" prepare.
I'm tired of people who tell me that they know "Viking Clothing" and/or reading serious archeological textile resources but they are basing their Viking cocktail dresses on a scrap of fabric that was stuck to a hull of a ship from which Carolyn Priest-Dorman extrapolated 1 (one!) plausible construction method and now everyone is imitating in cookie-cutter fashion and assuming that they should get kudos for ... what? ripping off Ms. Priest-Dorman? Or the textiles that they embellish don't resemble the weight/fiber of the results of the digs... or the colors they are using are based on what was offered at the local store instead of the colors that would have been available from dye-stuff in period.
That string of criticism could be applied to any of the forms of costume running around, it's just that the Vikings are easiest target because the Viking Lady is so heavily relied on as source material.
I'm tired of people who tell me that they don't have "time" for stuff but want kudos for what they could have done based on what they know if the time was available. Guess what, darlings? I am so pressed for time, I don't have time to feel bad for you. I may just laugh in your face and walk away wondering if I have time to cook dinner for my family or if it will be another eve of PB&J. Seriously!!! I do as much costuming on the train as I do in my workshop because that's all the time I have. But it's not an excuse for short cuts, it's the rationale for why I don't make things quickly.
I'm tired of "well, I would have made it more period, but then it wouldn't look good on me." Guess how much that impresses me? Actually, it shows me that you are less interested in your art than your personal aesthetic and the purist in me realizes you are not a kindred spirit. Cuz I have sacraficed vanity on the altar of trying to be accurate too many times to be empathetic to that line of reason.
Do I want to kibitz over what you've researched? Absolutely. Always. 100%.
Do I want to see new projects inspired by research? Absolutely. Always. 100%
And you say it's a first effort being done with what you have laying around? Great. Show me, I'm totally curious. I can't wait to see the final version with the bloopers worked out and the real "go live" materials.
Do you want to talk about the challenges of going from theory to reality? Hell yeah. I walk that journey all the freaking time. I love those war stories so bring 'em on.
I'm good with the sharing. I like the sharing. But I walk away from sharing development work or theories in process with the thought, "Wow, I can't wait to see what they do with that information." It's not at that stage where it proves the knowledge, it's still knowledge that's being coaxed into reality. I even think sharing first efforts and developmental work belongs in some displays as well as in classes. I have no expectations that A&S displays will become "super-duper high caliber only" stuff. That's not the point of those activities and that is not where I am going with this, so don't take it there or try to read that into my post. (I have to add that since I've organized A&S displays and always encourage new comers, but people might forget that and get my rant confused with some anti-new artisans thing).
Ultimately, it's truly a matter of presentation and expectations:
Bragging vs sharing
expecting kudos vs. kibitzing over work
I'm tired of bragging that is not founded on real product. When it comes to showing off workmanship with intent to impress, to me that means you have worked out the bloopers, you've used the "go live" materials, and you're demonstrating your knowledge with real items. Don't brag about what you know and then show me something that is so far removed from your knowledge that it no longer resembles your source material. If I can't look at it without a road map to explain all the short cuts, substitutions and bloopers, then it's not an example of your applied knowledge. To me, you don't have credibility for your knowledge if you've made a suit of plastic armor and you are saying, "based on my research and if I'd used metal it would be shaped thusly and fluted in these spots, etc." Great, you researched it but until you make it, you haven't made it. Have fun with it, but I'm not thinking of you as someone who's making that thing you've researched. You've researched one thing and made SOMETHING ELSE! I can't link those together. Sorry. Just can't.
I'm sure my reputation as a big mean laurel is either born or it has gone from hazy suspicion to solid reality. Whatever. If you totally don't get that I like new projects and development work; that I love to kibitz over trouble shooting and I particularly enjoy the journey of discovery, then that's too bad. You're reinventing the wheel? Awesome. Tell me about it. I'm an engineer and might even laugh at all the right moments. I really really enjoy that discourse and sharing and I'm a pretty good listener.
And if you didn't get that I don't give kudos to people who are looking to be known as an expert in X, but they've never made an X that looks like their researched X; in fact, they are full of excuses of why I should look sideways at their Y and pretend it's an X, then you might be disappointed when you are met with me silent response. Although you probably won't notice since your inner voice is probably applauding you so loudly for your razzle dazzle attempt that it drowns out my silence. Which is also too bad because I'll probably walk away wondering why I wasted my time with you instead of hanging out with the cool kids who are reinventing the wheel the hard way.
Anyway, the instructor said something that struck me really hard and I'm sharing. Let me preface this by saying, "This is my journal wherein I share my opinions. Polite, even vigorous, disagreement is welcome. Disrespect is not."
ooooo... curious? lol
"Knowledge is nice, but if you don't apply it, it loses credibility."
(right about here I toss out ALL the communication skills we're practicing in my class... go me!)
Another way of saying that is,
You can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?
I actually like the new quote better from the teacher because it's not about what you say you can do, it's about the knowledge you claim to have internalized and whether or not I give you credibility. This concept has been in my head for a while now and I'm excited that someone put it in words for me. I've been pondering this since A&S when an artisan told me how much research they've done on something, but then how they are not applying it because it (costs too much/ is too hard/ would take too long/ no one would understand/ insert excuse of your choice... etc).
But there are so many places where I see this:
Tell me you know and understand (blank), but do you live it?
-honor
-safety
-love
-honesty
This could be a very long list.
Phooey! If you don't do it, then I don't care how well you know it, you've lost credibility with me.
Don't say, "I am honorable and I know what it means to be honorable," and then cheat on your S.O., rhino in a tournament, cheat your taxes, or lie to your friends about where you went last weekend. That's bull shit.
Don't say, "I love you," and then break that trust or give it to another or upgrade it to Love Version 3.5 and edit your lover out of it. Bull shit.
Don't say, "I am honest," and then lie, either by ommision or outright. BS.
To bring this back around to SCA arts, which initiated my ponderings this summer, I am really tired of excuses. They are bullshit, too. Do it or don't do it, but don't try to dazzle me with your knowledge and then pass off your 11th hour effort as something that could have been better if you had better resources or had the time to "really, really" prepare.
I'm tired of people who tell me that they know "Viking Clothing" and/or reading serious archeological textile resources but they are basing their Viking cocktail dresses on a scrap of fabric that was stuck to a hull of a ship from which Carolyn Priest-Dorman extrapolated 1 (one!) plausible construction method and now everyone is imitating in cookie-cutter fashion and assuming that they should get kudos for ... what? ripping off Ms. Priest-Dorman? Or the textiles that they embellish don't resemble the weight/fiber of the results of the digs... or the colors they are using are based on what was offered at the local store instead of the colors that would have been available from dye-stuff in period.
That string of criticism could be applied to any of the forms of costume running around, it's just that the Vikings are easiest target because the Viking Lady is so heavily relied on as source material.
I'm tired of people who tell me that they don't have "time" for stuff but want kudos for what they could have done based on what they know if the time was available. Guess what, darlings? I am so pressed for time, I don't have time to feel bad for you. I may just laugh in your face and walk away wondering if I have time to cook dinner for my family or if it will be another eve of PB&J. Seriously!!! I do as much costuming on the train as I do in my workshop because that's all the time I have. But it's not an excuse for short cuts, it's the rationale for why I don't make things quickly.
I'm tired of "well, I would have made it more period, but then it wouldn't look good on me." Guess how much that impresses me? Actually, it shows me that you are less interested in your art than your personal aesthetic and the purist in me realizes you are not a kindred spirit. Cuz I have sacraficed vanity on the altar of trying to be accurate too many times to be empathetic to that line of reason.
Do I want to kibitz over what you've researched? Absolutely. Always. 100%.
Do I want to see new projects inspired by research? Absolutely. Always. 100%
And you say it's a first effort being done with what you have laying around? Great. Show me, I'm totally curious. I can't wait to see the final version with the bloopers worked out and the real "go live" materials.
Do you want to talk about the challenges of going from theory to reality? Hell yeah. I walk that journey all the freaking time. I love those war stories so bring 'em on.
I'm good with the sharing. I like the sharing. But I walk away from sharing development work or theories in process with the thought, "Wow, I can't wait to see what they do with that information." It's not at that stage where it proves the knowledge, it's still knowledge that's being coaxed into reality. I even think sharing first efforts and developmental work belongs in some displays as well as in classes. I have no expectations that A&S displays will become "super-duper high caliber only" stuff. That's not the point of those activities and that is not where I am going with this, so don't take it there or try to read that into my post. (I have to add that since I've organized A&S displays and always encourage new comers, but people might forget that and get my rant confused with some anti-new artisans thing).
Ultimately, it's truly a matter of presentation and expectations:
Bragging vs sharing
expecting kudos vs. kibitzing over work
I'm tired of bragging that is not founded on real product. When it comes to showing off workmanship with intent to impress, to me that means you have worked out the bloopers, you've used the "go live" materials, and you're demonstrating your knowledge with real items. Don't brag about what you know and then show me something that is so far removed from your knowledge that it no longer resembles your source material. If I can't look at it without a road map to explain all the short cuts, substitutions and bloopers, then it's not an example of your applied knowledge. To me, you don't have credibility for your knowledge if you've made a suit of plastic armor and you are saying, "based on my research and if I'd used metal it would be shaped thusly and fluted in these spots, etc." Great, you researched it but until you make it, you haven't made it. Have fun with it, but I'm not thinking of you as someone who's making that thing you've researched. You've researched one thing and made SOMETHING ELSE! I can't link those together. Sorry. Just can't.
I'm sure my reputation as a big mean laurel is either born or it has gone from hazy suspicion to solid reality. Whatever. If you totally don't get that I like new projects and development work; that I love to kibitz over trouble shooting and I particularly enjoy the journey of discovery, then that's too bad. You're reinventing the wheel? Awesome. Tell me about it. I'm an engineer and might even laugh at all the right moments. I really really enjoy that discourse and sharing and I'm a pretty good listener.
And if you didn't get that I don't give kudos to people who are looking to be known as an expert in X, but they've never made an X that looks like their researched X; in fact, they are full of excuses of why I should look sideways at their Y and pretend it's an X, then you might be disappointed when you are met with me silent response. Although you probably won't notice since your inner voice is probably applauding you so loudly for your razzle dazzle attempt that it drowns out my silence. Which is also too bad because I'll probably walk away wondering why I wasted my time with you instead of hanging out with the cool kids who are reinventing the wheel the hard way.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-17 08:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-17 09:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 12:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-17 08:50 pm (UTC)Especially because I'm currently using some nice procion dye in the washer to dye my free undyed fabric, and I picked a color I liked rather than thinking about what color would be available during that period. (not that I would have brought it forward during a talk on period dyes. I've tried period dyes, and this isn't it. It's just some fabric to make a dress.)
"Knowledge is nice, but if you don't apply it, it loses credibility."
Date: 2008-09-17 09:45 pm (UTC)Re: "Knowledge is nice, but if you don't apply it, it loses credibility."
Date: 2008-09-18 01:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-17 09:56 pm (UTC)I promise that I swear that I know damn well that my apron dress is a COSTUME and not clothing. I promise that I swear that I know damn well that the artifact in all likelihood was caulking for a ship's hull and not what we know as a "Viking Dress". I promise that I swear that I know damn well that they weren't even CALLED Vikings, but that Viking is a verb and these were Norse (among other peoples). I promise that I swear that I know damn well that it's an awful lot of effort I'm putting in to this Viking Costume (and not a Norse dress!), but it's pretty and I like it and it will make my oldest friend verra verra happy (not to mention Saint Hubband's glee!) when I wear it at Crown in a coupla weeks.
Faithfully,
Yer 'Prentice
Silly Ladye!
Date: 2008-09-18 12:35 am (UTC)I know that you know.
None of this is aimed at my peeps.
It is aimed at peeps who brag about their depth of knowledge, their sheer intellectual accomplishments, and anchor that on a hand-made thing that does not resemble their research.
If you go to Viking-Land and research Viking-Stuff and come back with an academic opus that shows the Viking-Clothing was created utterly different from the current fad... but then you use your current stuff as "proof" that you are an expert... then after I am done crying crocodile tears we will probably have some sort of reality check and I ask you where the pod is.
no no - have fun with the current Viking fad. It's great tourney wear. It's fun to embellish. I expect you'll look hawt!!!! (!!!)
your loving laurel
Re: Silly Ladye!
Date: 2008-09-18 01:22 am (UTC)Silly lady yerself!
Re: Silly Ladye!
Date: 2008-09-18 04:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-17 10:52 pm (UTC)So, it is very possible that someone knows quite a bit of useful and practical stuff on a subject but just can't do it themselves.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 12:42 am (UTC)My point: go up to the armor example. Knowing about armor does not make you an armorer. It makes you knowledgeable about armor. Making armor is how you become an armorer. Making armor as it was done in period is what makes you experienced at how armor was made in period. You can't fake it with knowledge, you have to do it to be able to say you can do it.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 05:53 pm (UTC)"Knowledge is nice, but if you don't apply it, it loses credibility."
Date: 2008-09-19 06:51 am (UTC)The credibility of knowledge isn't, or at least shouldn't be, dependent on applying that knowledge; rather, it is determined by how well the claimed knowledge stands up to scrutiny. Is there evidence to back it up? Is there evidence that contradicts it? Is the logic logical? And so on.
One does not have to Do to Know.
Re: "Knowledge is nice, but if you don't apply it, it loses credibility."
Date: 2008-09-22 07:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 01:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 01:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 01:57 am (UTC)Am living the end results of the first part of your post--the honor, love, and so forth...or lack thereof, as is the case with my STBex. Sucks when someone claims to be one thing, then turns out to be/turns into someone else entirely.
As for the SCA arts...it seems fundamental to me that if you haven't made Period Thing X, you haven't made it? Research is great, but it's not the same as craft. I know that I tend to gravitate more toward artisans whose work I can see and admire and study, than those who only ever talk about their knowledge.
At a base level, as a student, it's better to speak with folks who've "been there and done that" because they have the best practical problem-solving advice to help me in my own journey to making my research and vision into reality. Someone who hasn't actually produced a specific type of embroidery can't help me avoid chiseling corners onto my nascent wheels.
(And now I understand the looks on CL and IdB's faces when I showed them the early period surface-couched sleeve cuff project. Yes, I was ****ing insane. But I will finish them one day, dammit.)
no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 02:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 06:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 01:09 pm (UTC)I have a few reasons for this. One, I am not a wood worker. I am great at finishing wood. Sanding and staining etc. I can cope with. I'm not up to bending wood that then has to hold at speed.
Two, There is some considerable expense involved. My best guess is $1500-3000 to do it right. That's not to say that I haven't spent that on other items in the SCA. I just haven't found the motivation to spend that on this particular item. Especially, since I know how art projects go. Making this once won't be sufficent. There will be prototypes and modifications involved.
Three - I have some safety concerns about homebuilt carriages. When a slate bed or chair breaks, its not so bad. When a carriage wrecks, the results are spectacular. I need to wrap my mind around the testing process before I am willing to risk my body and my ponies body that way.
Four - I'm not sure I'm interested in being a Carriage building expert. I think my primary focus lies in being a driving/transportation expert. Not something I am ever likely to get Laurelled for in a strong material culture kingdom. But a subject area I find endlessly fascinating, engaging, and most importantly satisfying.
For now, I'm ok with being a "hypothesist" rather than an Artisan or a Sciencer :)
no subject
Date: 2008-09-19 05:15 am (UTC)