Words, Part 2
Sep. 18th, 2008 09:19 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
threadwalkerOn discussing feelings at work.
By the way, our instructor was hysterical. Very dry sense of humor and full of great examples and self-mockery.
After lunch, the instructor covered the topic of how to express ourselves using "feeling" statements. (Yes, I put quotes around that word. Can you sense I'm going somewhere with this?)
I'm totally onboard with discussing feelings in every aspect of my life EXCEPT at work. I don't think it belongs there. Unfortunately for the instructor, all the examples we had to work on were work related items, (EG. develop a statement for informing your boss how you feel when he/she asks you to work past 5pm everyday) AND he had me in his class. I hijacked the class with my rant and I'm not sure he ever got his point across.
First we were broken up into small groups and I was the only woman in my group. I refused to do the exercise. The men didn't notice my lack of participation because, to be blunt, I don't think THEY had any experience in using the words "I feel" in statements and were too busy struggling with it. So my passive resistance went unnoticed by them.
Then we were to give feedback to the class. When the instructor called for class feedback, one guy said, "I feel overwhelmed when you ask me to work past 5pm." He got kudos and a little round of applause for such a good "Feeling" statement.
Gag me! I'd planned on keeping my big mouth shut, but after that I rolled my eyes and shot my hand up to be called on. I couldn't hold back and when he called on me, I cut loose. (Yes, this was all after my LJ Rant, so I was a little juiced on annoyance and impatience with the world.)
1. Discussions of feelings do not belong at work. Suck it up and get over it. This is not about interpersonal relationships, it's about professional ones. We are not friends, we are colleagues and the only reason people care about our feelings is if it interferes with getting our work done. And since our bosses are not trained therapists, they are not here to provide counseling. Go to a freaking professional and deal with it. (Round of gasps from all the administrative assistant and HR types who were in the class; a few nods from the braver/stupider men. I say "stupid" because they got the same glare I was getting once the ladies noticed).
2. When women speak of feelings, men freak. In my career, I have worked almost exclusively with men and they do not understand discussions of feelings. They also know women cry for pain, joy, frustration, anger, fear, and innumerable other reasons, so the minute a woman says "Feelings", they know the forecast is "90% chance of tears" and are reaching for the box of tissue in blind panic. They don't know what to do about the tears and can't hear what you are saying through the veil of crocodile tears. The don't care and don't want to know.
3. When a woman starts talking about feelings at work, she gets dinged by everyone else as allowing her personal life interfere with her job. Or her "sensitive nature" prevents her from working effectively and she gets side-tracked.
One woman piped up with the 5pm example and told me that I'd be feeling upset if I was constantly expected to work past 5pm. (I think she said that happens to her all the time.) One of the guys also chimed in with agreement on her statements.
The woman was older, probably 20 years; the guy was younger - at least 15 yrs.
Failure: don't think you know me. You have not walked in my shoes. I learned the HARD way that feelings don't belong at work; I have the scars and I learned from my mistakes. I'm generation X; statistically we are not emotionally invested in our jobs because we've been bouncing between jobs and living in a job environment that is the opposite of stable. I learned to stop defining myself via my job about 10 years ago. It's just a job that I try to do well so that I can have the personal life I want; feelings have no place in it.
(Here's where I forget to pretend to blend in and become super unpopular because I give my real opinion.)
I reply with, "I don't bring my emotions to work, so I'm not "upset" about being asked to work late. That is the result of a business need and not a personal attack on me, so there's no need to get emotionally invested in it. I took the job I have so that I don't have to work weekends or work late except for unusual circumstances; I looked into that on my own before I applied for it. My reality is I need to leave work by 5:15pm to pick up my kids. Therefore, I get in early enough to leave by 5 pm and if I must, I will work through lunch to squeeze in an extra hour, but I will not work late unless it's unusual circumstances. If my boss can't cope with me leaving at 5:15, then I need a new boss or a new job. I have choices in this. And from a professional stand point, I would be concerned over the effectiveness and success of any department I'm in if the deliverables were constantly needing people to stay late to get done in time; it's a sign of a broken process and instead of putting up with it being broken, take some initiative to fix it or get a new job. Because any department that operates like that is eventually going to go down in flames and I'm not interested in being part of that drama. I have as much control over this as I want to take responsibility for."
The instructor looked at the lady, who continued to whine that she has to work late and that she was unable to talk to her boss about it. The instrutor nodded towrd me and told her that she had some choices to make. (*smirk*) So he moved onto the next topic since I'd pretty much shut down the conversation with my rant.
Yeah.. suck it up. This is a "no whine" zone.
By the way, our instructor was hysterical. Very dry sense of humor and full of great examples and self-mockery.
After lunch, the instructor covered the topic of how to express ourselves using "feeling" statements. (Yes, I put quotes around that word. Can you sense I'm going somewhere with this?)
I'm totally onboard with discussing feelings in every aspect of my life EXCEPT at work. I don't think it belongs there. Unfortunately for the instructor, all the examples we had to work on were work related items, (EG. develop a statement for informing your boss how you feel when he/she asks you to work past 5pm everyday) AND he had me in his class. I hijacked the class with my rant and I'm not sure he ever got his point across.
First we were broken up into small groups and I was the only woman in my group. I refused to do the exercise. The men didn't notice my lack of participation because, to be blunt, I don't think THEY had any experience in using the words "I feel" in statements and were too busy struggling with it. So my passive resistance went unnoticed by them.
Then we were to give feedback to the class. When the instructor called for class feedback, one guy said, "I feel overwhelmed when you ask me to work past 5pm." He got kudos and a little round of applause for such a good "Feeling" statement.
Gag me! I'd planned on keeping my big mouth shut, but after that I rolled my eyes and shot my hand up to be called on. I couldn't hold back and when he called on me, I cut loose. (Yes, this was all after my LJ Rant, so I was a little juiced on annoyance and impatience with the world.)
1. Discussions of feelings do not belong at work. Suck it up and get over it. This is not about interpersonal relationships, it's about professional ones. We are not friends, we are colleagues and the only reason people care about our feelings is if it interferes with getting our work done. And since our bosses are not trained therapists, they are not here to provide counseling. Go to a freaking professional and deal with it. (Round of gasps from all the administrative assistant and HR types who were in the class; a few nods from the braver/stupider men. I say "stupid" because they got the same glare I was getting once the ladies noticed).
2. When women speak of feelings, men freak. In my career, I have worked almost exclusively with men and they do not understand discussions of feelings. They also know women cry for pain, joy, frustration, anger, fear, and innumerable other reasons, so the minute a woman says "Feelings", they know the forecast is "90% chance of tears" and are reaching for the box of tissue in blind panic. They don't know what to do about the tears and can't hear what you are saying through the veil of crocodile tears. The don't care and don't want to know.
3. When a woman starts talking about feelings at work, she gets dinged by everyone else as allowing her personal life interfere with her job. Or her "sensitive nature" prevents her from working effectively and she gets side-tracked.
One woman piped up with the 5pm example and told me that I'd be feeling upset if I was constantly expected to work past 5pm. (I think she said that happens to her all the time.) One of the guys also chimed in with agreement on her statements.
The woman was older, probably 20 years; the guy was younger - at least 15 yrs.
Failure: don't think you know me. You have not walked in my shoes. I learned the HARD way that feelings don't belong at work; I have the scars and I learned from my mistakes. I'm generation X; statistically we are not emotionally invested in our jobs because we've been bouncing between jobs and living in a job environment that is the opposite of stable. I learned to stop defining myself via my job about 10 years ago. It's just a job that I try to do well so that I can have the personal life I want; feelings have no place in it.
(Here's where I forget to pretend to blend in and become super unpopular because I give my real opinion.)
I reply with, "I don't bring my emotions to work, so I'm not "upset" about being asked to work late. That is the result of a business need and not a personal attack on me, so there's no need to get emotionally invested in it. I took the job I have so that I don't have to work weekends or work late except for unusual circumstances; I looked into that on my own before I applied for it. My reality is I need to leave work by 5:15pm to pick up my kids. Therefore, I get in early enough to leave by 5 pm and if I must, I will work through lunch to squeeze in an extra hour, but I will not work late unless it's unusual circumstances. If my boss can't cope with me leaving at 5:15, then I need a new boss or a new job. I have choices in this. And from a professional stand point, I would be concerned over the effectiveness and success of any department I'm in if the deliverables were constantly needing people to stay late to get done in time; it's a sign of a broken process and instead of putting up with it being broken, take some initiative to fix it or get a new job. Because any department that operates like that is eventually going to go down in flames and I'm not interested in being part of that drama. I have as much control over this as I want to take responsibility for."
The instructor looked at the lady, who continued to whine that she has to work late and that she was unable to talk to her boss about it. The instrutor nodded towrd me and told her that she had some choices to make. (*smirk*) So he moved onto the next topic since I'd pretty much shut down the conversation with my rant.
Yeah.. suck it up. This is a "no whine" zone.
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no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 05:04 pm (UTC)This is why contracting worked out so much better for me. I was in Software, and if you are only working 45 hours a week you are a slacker who is going to get fired. *All* the places I worked (except Cisco) had broken processes and death-march projects were the norm. I decided that if this was the lay of the land, then I was damn well going to get paid for all those hours. It was also easier for me to leave the emotions at home.
And yes, most of those places do not exist anymore.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 05:38 pm (UTC)I used my lay-off as an opportunity to change my career so that I would not have to live like that. I made a choice to change and I've treated each career move since then with the idea that I am responsible for the consequences. I think too many people fall into jobs and then assume they have no choice or control. That might also be a generational thing; you and I have been tossed about by the software/dot-com boom and doom.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 06:04 pm (UTC)I too have changed careers, because I have a tough time dealing with that stress. Even as broke as I am, I am happy to not be subject to the unrealistic deadlines and managerial empire-building that goes on in software.
Yes on the generational thing: my mom is all worried about the guy next door who has changed employers about every five years. I think he is remarkably stable. I have a hackneyed but appropriate surfing analogy for career management. You *will* get pounded by the ocean, and you have to get back up on your board and blow the water out of your sinuses. The ocean is not personally after you.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 06:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 06:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-19 03:32 am (UTC)Huzzah!
Date: 2008-09-18 05:19 pm (UTC)Re: Huzzah!
Date: 2008-09-18 05:43 pm (UTC)Re: Huzzah!
Date: 2008-09-18 06:22 pm (UTC)Re: Huzzah!
Date: 2008-09-18 07:43 pm (UTC)it's the way of the world. And are you suprised we agree?
hugs,
no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 05:28 pm (UTC)If you can't do it tell me. If you can, tell me. Don't go off in the corner and whine about it and don't come to me and tell me your feelings are hurt. As long as I asked respectfully I am not responsible for your feelings.
Can you tell I employ children? (insert eye roll)
no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 05:32 pm (UTC)You have to communicate your situation. But there's no reason for being hurt. And if you think you are being attacked by your boss, get a reality check from a co-worker. If they think so, too, then either involve HR or move along. It's not worth the drama.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 05:29 pm (UTC)Furthermore, I absolutely refuse to work for female manager for this reason. Every, single, frakking, female boss I have reported to talked about her personal issues and feelings. The more constant the TMI the more threatened they felt. It never served me to be the holder of disparaging information that I was told. Now, I just clock in work the required hours +, keep personal conversations to a minimum and clock out at the end of the day. You can be personable and well-liked by listening to others without sharing yourself. More important is being competent and thorough in your job. Consulting does seem to be the easiest way to go.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 06:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 06:32 pm (UTC)xo
no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 06:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 06:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 06:35 pm (UTC)I think I love you.
Date: 2008-09-18 06:14 pm (UTC)I absolutely agree with you on this, and in fact I have learned through bitter experience that not only are we not friends, but if we ARE friends, we WILL NOT ENGAGE IN A BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP. Period. I get pretty militant about this. I object to my friends trying to sell me stuff and get me involved in money-making schemes (and when they do I have to assume they want to switch from the friend to the colleague category in my life), and I absolutely don't involve work colleagues in my personal life. It's just best to draw that line and stick to it.
I don't care about my colleagues' feeling about getting their work done, and I damn well don't want them soliciting mine. I do my work, I get paid, end of transaction.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 06:42 pm (UTC)Here's something else to consider--maybe it's just "female" feelings that don't belong at work. I have also been sacrificed and scarred on the alter of high-tech and have learned that whining about your work--expressing that you are hurt, or sad, or overwhelmed, or showing signs of "weakness", is the swiftest way to get onto the short list for layoffs, BUT it seems to be OK (in moderation) to express "male" emotions like anger. Interesting. It's still a man's world.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 07:39 pm (UTC)I also think that women lose street cred when they talk about any feelings whereas men EARN street cred when they verbalize their angry feelings instead of acting out on them.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 09:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-18 06:59 pm (UTC)I love being a girl working in a male dominated industry
Date: 2008-09-18 10:05 pm (UTC)I issue "I think" and "I reccomend" statements all the time. It has NEVER occurred to me to start a sentence with "I feel".
And if staying past five bothers you, find someplace that pays you for your time. The joys of consulting - my time is compensated, my opinion is payed for, and if You fire me because You think I'm not valuable, I have a host of other clients and You can be replaced.
Re: I love being a girl working in a male dominated industry
Date: 2008-09-18 11:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-19 05:22 am (UTC)Ay-bloody-men.
Feelings have no place in a professional setting. (Though I do think that the point about anger in previous comments is both fascinating and true.)