Ladies' Room Post

[threadwalker]

Usually I lock these to the women only, but this one is not locked and the men can chime in.

I'm very interested in what people think, especially those who feel the side-effects of age creeping in.


Over a series of weird conversations in the last few weeks, the topic of cosmeitc enhancements came up.

Let me add that doing long days trapped on the manufacturing floor seem to trigger "conversation" and that I was working with women engineers. When working with men, the topics usually revolve around sports, cars, rock-bands from the 80s (in a "name that tune" sort of way), repressive mother-in-laws, the crazy things wives/kids/pets do and dream vacations.

So one of the recurring threads with women was physical degradation due to age and the cosmetic enhancements available for aging, skin care, sagging body parts (that were previously perky), etc.

Face lifts:

I was shocked at the woman who said she was planning a face lift in a few years. I thought she was in her early-mid 30s, but she's 42. And she is seriously thinking face lift. I look older than her. (gasp! oh no! Do I need a face lift, too?)

Turns out the Crazy Cat lady is really 70 and has had 2 face lifts and numerous laser surgery on her chest/neck/eyes. I guess it works because she looks like she's in her mid 50s. She let someone else (not me!!) touch the clips in her scalp from the face lifts.

ewwwww! I totally get bumps all over and do the "ick, bugs are crawling on me"-dance when I think of that. gross.

But there it is, she's taken off nearly 20 years. Her eyebrows are in a sort of "up" position which explains the enquiring expression she has all the time. I can't stop staring at her scalp wondering if I'll see the clips peaking out through her hair.

I understand wanting to look young (isn't that why I use facial serum w/ retinol in it every morning and then apply sunscreen before going out?). But right now I can't personally overcome my freak-out over scalp clips to even consider this option. Which is why I'm so stunned that someone who's only 3 years older than me is planning one around the time she's 45. I'm boggled. Maybe when I'm 55 this will seem less creepy. ... maybe... but don't count on it.

As for nose jobs, cheek bones, eyes, lips, etc, we didn't cover it in our conversatoins. But I don't really have an opinion either way. If you have a facial feature that makes you feel like a social reject, then I'm all in support of fixing it. People react to our faces and it strikes us at our core when we feel ugly or socially unacceptable due to a feature we have no control over. (I draw a distinction between aging and things like noses; aging happens to everyone whereas noses are equipment we're born with). That said, my mom was always talking about getting a nose job and I happen to love her just the way she is; I wouldn't love her more due to a new nose and told her that whenever she asked me.

Lipo-Suction

One of the women has had lipo-suction and swears by it. I'm a skeptic. Easy off - Easy on. What's the point of lipo-suction if you don't change your life style? I would think that it comes right back on if you don't make bigger changes like diet and exercise. To me, it sounds like a lot of discomfort with short-term pay back. I don't think it would be used for general health risks due to over-weight; I think stomach stapling is the preferred solution these days for that. So unless you're a bathing suit model (or Demi Moore) and millions of dollars are on the line, I really don't see the point.

Maybe someone else has insight.

Boob Jobs
... bigger, perkier, lifts, etc (not related to post cancer reconstruction)...

In theory, I don't see any problems with this. I do understand how sagging is something you have no control over and if you really really hate that part of your body, then they have the technology to do something. Since I spent high school and Jr College as an A-cup, I understand the social fall-out of being a flat-chested woman; it's no fun and you don't get treated the same. So this doesn't creep me out or make me uncomfortable when people get one. It's probably in part because I know enough breast cancer survivors who've had reconstructive surgery and who've talked openly about it, it doesn't seem freaky to me.

Personally, I don't think I'll be getting one. I just hate the idea of being cut open and patched back up. If there was some sort of Logan's Run option where you could go in and have things done without having to recover, that would be tempting... I'd get cheek bones while I was at it. But actual surgery? Nah. I'm just not unhappy enough with the fall-out of aging to warrant the discomfort or deal with my fears. Besides, according to my inner cynic, one in eight women gets breast cancer, so pay for it and get it twice when I can get it for free in my late 40s?

Cosmetic enhancements.. there are so many anti-aging technologies, beauty enhancing technologies, and "things" we can do to change our appearance. It reminds me of that book I read last year about "body projects". Trying to maintain youth would be considered a body project. The author drew a connection between our obsession with our appearances and, initially, the installation of mirrors in most homes in the late 1800s. That was just the pebble that became the snowball; media, movie stars, advertisers, etc, have contributed to that snowball. And yet, I look younger than my grandmother at this age. I am stronger and in better health than she was. I'm already "younger" biologically if not chronologically than women my age 100 years ago, so haven't I already achieved the "forever young" goal by living healthy and having sufficient nutrition? Clearly it's not enough accrording to what we see on TV. I find myself pondering our cultural obsession with being "forever young" and the extreme measures people can/will take to be attractive and to be young.

I don't have any strong opinions either way about most of the procedures out there. Self esteem is a real thing and if someone really needs to do something in order to be happy with themselves, then I will clap from the sidelines (and refuse to touch scalp clips because some sharing is too much sharing). But I am fascinated with the array of things available and the break-point at which people are willing to go in and "do" something. I'm always curious about someone's motivation/goal for doing it; youth might be linked to career success/longevity, holding onto arm-candy status, snagging a mate, feeling good about one's self, etc.

Comments

[lifeofglamour.livejournal.com]

This is an interesting topic for me. I can't remember if you were on my friendslist when I was getting my surgeries, but if you weren't, and didn't know, I've had two pretty major plastic surgeries for removing excess skin due to my weight loss. The first one was a belt lipectomy (body lift), about 11 hours under, and the second was to re-section the hips from the first, and an inner thigh lift (remove excess skin) while they were at it (about 6 hours under).
It took me a while to talk myself into it because while having 12+ inches of excess skin was unsightly and annoying, getting it removed wasn't a medical necessity. Vain? Maybe. Depends on your definition and I could go either way on that. Having gone back recently and looked at the before and after pictures that the surgeon took, I can say now that the before was MUCH WORSE than I thought it was at the time.

All that being said, though, I don't think I would go in for an "improvement". I don't consider what I had "improvements" in the sense that if you consider normal-fitting skin to be a baseline, I was simply returning my body to a baseline status after shedding ~200 pounds. However, something I noticed once I got to my goal weight is that the wrinkles on my face, particularly the ones that frame my mouth, are deeper than anybody else my age. The skin on my face stretched while the rest of me did too. And while sometimes I idly ponder getting a facelift, at this point I don't think that I ever would, because I earned those lines, every one. They are a map of my life and path, and to remove them seems a sign of disrespect for the passage and lessons learned.

I don't know if I'll still feel this way in 10 or 20 years, but it's how I've felt the last 5, once I realized why they were so deep. Sometimes they bother me and I know that I can look pretty "stern" when I'm not smiling because of them, but I think I'll keep them.

Interesting aside: The first person I ever knew who'd admitted to having plastic surgery (a tummy tuck) was a co-worker when I was working for your employer, in the RegAffairs department, in the late 90s.

[thread-walker.livejournal.com]

I did not know you during your surgery period.

I think it's a toss up between calling that cosmetic vs health related. Afterall, how your wear your skin affects your self-esteem and self-esteem is a very real health issue that drives our behaviour. In my opinion, it sounds like it was a real health need.

[lifeofglamour.livejournal.com]

Having looked at the before pictures now with the detachment of 4 years post-surgery, I would agree that it was a very real need, and anybody that saw them would never deny me the procedures. (plus it was discouraging to run with all that skin flopping around)